Träna engelskan?

[mandalaki]

Jag använder nog nästan alltid "who" när det är folk jag pratar om. Tror jag. Har aldrig funderat på det.
Jag hittade detta vid en snabb googling: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/who-versus-that

(jag kan cirka inga grammatiska regler för engelska, går bara på känsla. en känsla som tyvärr nu påverkas av spanskan jag har i huvudet som gör att det till exempel känns helt okej att använda dubbla negationer )

Hm, så vitt jag kan se säger texten (som jag bara hann läsa snabbt, är på språng) det jag vet: att man KAN säga that även om personer, men inte NÄR man gör det. Men tack!

 

[mandalaki]

Who defines a person (or animal) "Who is that dog over there?"
That defines a person (or animal) or thing, "That dog belongs to hastflicka. That car is hastflicka's"

If you use 'that' you need to include the person you're referring to.

Men jag kan svära på att jag också ser "a person that" osv ...

Hittar det här fast nu måste jag rusa: http://editingandwritingservices.com/people-who-or-people-that/

 

[hastflicka]

Men jag kan svära på att jag också ser "a person that" osv ...

Hittar det här fast nu måste jag rusa: http://editingandwritingservices.com/people-who-or-people-that/

And yes, I just didn't think we needed to be too particular when it comes to grammar in this discussion. What I wrote is a fast easy way to think about it and it works most of the time ... then there are a multitude of exceptions of course. Like in any grammar rule in English. There are sometimes more exceptions to the rule than samples that follows the rule.

 

[TheRedLightning]

So what kind of subject should we chose, maybe we can switch subject, either once a week or even faster depending on if the subject gets hard or something? Maybe make turns about it too, so everybody gets a chance to chose.
I found it a really good idea to use (fuck I don't know the English word for these things around this little text, para---something) around the text one would like help with, I know I suck at technical terms in English, which reminds me I still don't know the English terms about my work...

Oh, and I'll also provide a link to a very helpful online dictionary, which has helped me a lot. www.tyda.se

 

[mandalaki]

And yes, I just didn't think we needed to be too particular when it comes to grammar in this discussion. What I wrote is a fast easy way to think about it and it works most of the time ... then there are a multitude of exceptions of course. Like in any grammar rule in English. There are sometimes more exceptions to the rule than samples that follows the rule.

Nej, det är klart att ni inte ska hänga upp er på grammatik, jag bara passade på att ställa en grammatikfråga som jag undrat över

Jag har alltid använt who men på senare år, när jag börjat umgås mer på engelska på nätet, har jag även sett that om personer. Det är därför jag börjat tveka. Men det kanske helt enkelt är så att det är slarvigt språk. Jag får vara uppmärksam nästa gång jag läser en bok på engelska och kolla om där bara förekommer who om personer. Självklart är det vad jag alltid valt innan jag snöade in på that.

 

[Karfitsa]

You can use that about both people and things. Who is used about people (and I've seen it used for animals, too).

 

[mandalaki]

You can use that about both people and things. Who is used about people (and I've seen it used for animals, too).

Of course I know that who is used about people. I use it all the time.

But thanks a lot for your first sentence. I wasn't dreaming

(Orka skriva längre inlägg än så på engelska)

 

[CillaW]

My Spanish career: La Senorita Molina esta en la Calle de Solana. Busca (?) el hotel Goya. Typ.

My daughter studied Spanish for a year, she can now explain that she has a cat in her trousers. Useful.

 

[TheRedLightning]

As for myself, somehow I have easier writing in English than Swedish. I think for me it comes from when I read a lot fanfics online in English, I found new friends in other countries and started communicating with them on a daily basis.
I even watch anime (Japanese cartoons) and they are subbed in English, I still remember when I was the most active, I couldn't even think in Swedish. I struggled with Swedish words and could only come up with the English words.
It still bugs me that "it makes sense" doesn't have quite as good translation in Swedish, as well as the word "lagom" doesn't exist in English as an equal translation for it anyway.

I think I have an easier way expressing myself in English, I've been in Ireland a couple of times and I also plan to go back. I must say I loved their accent. Also when I was in China I met some Americans, and all I've met both online and in real life (irl) have told me that I'm good at English. For me it's quite enough to be good at it and make other people understand what I'm trying to tell them, sure sometimes it can be hard when you talk. It's easier when you write and you can think more thoroughly about what you want to say/write.
When talking, it's often a bit harder especially if one word gets stuck, but most of the time it's just to keep talking and trying to explain. I loved being in Ireland, sometimes they helped me when I struggled with a word and that was really good.

I recall when I was in Ireland I came to learn all those technical terms about horses. Sure I had seen/heard some of them before, but many were new.
Like going for a hack, when you take your horse and ride out in the woods or something. I learnt the difference between gallop and canter, and that tack is the horse's gear.
It was really fun to combine a vacation trip with horse riding, training English and having a lot of fun, and last but not least, making new friends. I loved it.

Today I think English is very good to know, cause many people can speak it and understand it, so you can communicate with so many people. I know my grammar is far from perfect, and I'm mostly self-taught. Since English in school sucked, we had a teacher who was not so inspiring.
I could probably go on and on, but I do hope that there's more people out there who enjoy the joy of English and the freedom it brings. Freedom to communicate with so many people, you're not locked to those countries that understand your motherlanguage etc.

To be honest, if I didn't have something that rooted me here in Sweden, I would probably have moved to Ireland, but as it is I'm still happy to be able to go visit and still live here in the beautiful yet cold Sweden.

 

[Mineur]

I found it a really good idea to use (fuck I don't know the English word for these things around this little text, para---something) around the text one would like help with, I know I suck at technical terms in English, which reminds me I still don't know the English terms about my work...

Oh, and I'll also provide a link to a very helpful online dictionary, which has helped me a lot. www.tyda.se

Parantheses (plural)/paranthesis (singular), or you can simply say bracket(s).

What an excellent idea by the way, this thread! I might not write that much here as I don't really consider myself to need it (I already live in an English speaking country and work mostly in English), but it'll be an interesting read and I'm sure I'll learn lots of useful stuff!

 

[Ponnyryttaren_]

definitely get lots of practise when swedish isn't an alternative! I lived in Portugal for a year, though in an area where there is a lot of foreigners, so I could always 'cheat' and use english quite successfully... but my 'talking-english' got a little less awkward :P

Also, the portuguese don't dub, so if I watch american/english programs or movies (common) i would get double practice. In sweden I always read the subtitles (even when I don't have to) so that was a challenge to actually listen, at the same time I'm trying to read the portuguese :P

 

[Mineur]

By the way, am I the only one who finds that it is easier to write formally in English? I've noticed this a lot at work, which is very much email-based and where my work is about 30% in Swedish and 70% in English. I don't know if it's my Swedish that has deteriorated or if I'm just right (), but I do find it more difficult to be formal an professional in writing when it comes to Swedish as opposed to English.

For example... I miss the equivalent of expressions such as "Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused", "If I can be of any further assistance...", or simply being able to start an email with "Good afternoon" instead of "Hi" to make it that little bit more formal. I also miss linking devices, such as "However", "Nevertheless", "In addition". I miss being able to say "Sir" when speaking to customers or other important people on the phone. Etcetera.

I can not for the life of me think of any Swedish equivalents to these things, but end up starting every email with "Hej" and writing almost in the same style as when I write my own grandmother... I did one time try to say "jag ber om ursäkt för eventuella besvär detta orsakar dig" as an equivalent of "I do apologise for any inconvenience caused", but it didn't feel very right or natural at all.

Any thoughts?

 

[MJLee]

I'm in, but only if the Canadian English is banned. I never understand what they're writing. Each word - yes, but what they mean - no. Until today I thought this was my fault, but today I'm joined by some ten colleagues who don't understand either

Try Glaswegian working class guy who smoked for most of his life. When I went to Uni in York, first seminar and I understood maybe every fifth word, panic time until I realised that none of the others, all native speakers understod him either

 

[hastflicka]

Nej, det är klart att ni inte ska hänga upp er på grammatik, jag bara passade på att ställa en grammatikfråga som jag undrat över

Jag har alltid använt who men på senare år, när jag börjat umgås mer på engelska på nätet, har jag även sett that om personer. Det är därför jag börjat tveka. Men det kanske helt enkelt är så att det är slarvigt språk. Jag får vara uppmärksam nästa gång jag läser en bok på engelska och kolla om där bara förekommer who om personer. Självklart är det vad jag alltid valt innan jag snöade in på that.

Who is always used about people or animals. That can be used about people, animals AND inanimate objects.

If you use who (or whom) about people and animals and that about inanimate objects you can't go wrong. At least I can't think of anywhere you'd make a faux pas with that.

 

[hastflicka]

Try Glaswegian working class guy who smoked for most of his life. When I went to Uni in York, first seminar and I understood maybe every fifth word, panic time until I realised that none of the others, all native speakers understod him either

I couldn't understand what people said at all in Glasgow ... But it was even worse in Helensburgh. Finally I confided in an "English Gentleman" that I just didn't understand a word of what the guy who came to tow his boat said. He laughed at something the farmer, Tommy, said, hollered back to him, "That's Right!" before he whispered to me, "Don't worry, neither do I".

 

[Moonshadow]

About different versions of English, that is interesting. I'm working in a global company, interacting in English (verbal and written) with people in China, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, UK, France, Belgium, US, Portugal and Sweden. This have created an "open" English, so I sometimes even see incorrect wording from the Americans. The Brittish colleagues still express themselves very correct, though. But they are new to the company, so we'll see in a year or two...

 

[Mineur]

Try Glaswegian working class guy who smoked for most of his life. When I went to Uni in York, first seminar and I understood maybe every fifth word, panic time until I realised that none of the others, all native speakers understod him either

I couldn't understand what people said at all in Glasgow ... But it was even worse in Helensburgh. Finally I confided in an "English Gentleman" that I just didn't understand a word of what the guy who came to tow his boat said. He laughed at something the farmer, Tommy, said, hollered back to him, "That's Right!" before he whispered to me, "Don't worry, neither do I".

Allow me to quote the dean of the university during my first ever university lecture here in Glasgow: "I can understand this must be very daunting for you. Here you are, in a new country, a new city, and NOBODY speaks English!"

I live in Glasgow and my boyfriend is from Helensburgh by the way, @hastflicka. He's okay when he doesn't speak

 

[Karfitsa]

I once visited the distillery in Oban with a group of Swedes. The very nice gentleman who guided us in the art of making whisky talked for ages. I didn't dare look at my colleague - it turned out later that neither of us had caught more than 10 per cent of what he said, so both of us had quickly lost the thread. Fortunately, he seemed to realise this, as he offered us an extra shot of whisky at the end of the tour.

 

[Anna]

By the way, am I the only one who finds that it is easier to write formally in English? I've noticed this a lot at work, which is very much email-based and where my work is about 30% in Swedish and 70% in English. I don't know if it's my Swedish that has deteriorated or if I'm just right (), but I do find it more difficult to be formal an professional in writing when it comes to Swedish as opposed to English.

For example... I miss the equivalent of expressions such as "Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused", "If I can be of any further assistance...", or simply being able to start an email with "Good afternoon" instead of "Hi" to make it that little bit more formal. I also miss linking devices, such as "However", "Nevertheless", "In addition". I miss being able to say "Sir" when speaking to customers or other important people on the phone. Etcetera.

I can not for the life of me think of any Swedish equivalents to these things, but end up starting every email with "Hej" and writing almost in the same style as when I write my own grandmother... I did one time try to say "jag ber om ursäkt för eventuella besvär detta orsakar dig" as an equivalent of "I do apologise for any inconvenience caused", but it didn't feel very right or natural at all.

Any thoughts?

Completely agree. I have spent the better part of my working life in the UK, and thus have written most of my formal communication in English. I also studied there, and of course all my academic essays were in formal English.

I find it incredibly difficult at times to formulate good formal sentences in Swedish - they either sound pompous or like I'm just trying to use difficult words for the sake of it.

Luckily almost all formal communication at my place of work is in English, so I don't have to struggle too much. However, a large part of the recipients of my formal documentation have very poor English, so I always have to simplify what I'm intending anyway. Oh, such luxury problems!

 

[athena_arabians]

I once visited the distillery in Oban with a group of Swedes. The very nice gentleman who guided us in the art of making whisky talked for ages. I didn't dare look at my colleague - it turned out later that neither of us had caught more than 10 per cent of what he said, so both of us had quickly lost the thread. Fortunately, he seemed to realise this, as he offered us an extra shot of whisky at the end of the tour.

I do believe you would have benefited from an extra wee dram at the beginning of the tour to facilitate the understanding.

My former colleague is a Scotsman with a rather understandable English, except from when he is upset and/or angry. His accent gets very heavy then!