Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

[Leafhillranch]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Hey Canada
Havn´t talk too you in a while, you guys doing OK?
Here´s the same ol same ol, got Amigo shoed, cows have gotten fat, haven´t gotten out since last I talk too you.
I take it you saw the film?
A lot we can discuss...how deep do you want too go?
Opening shot, a saddled horse bucking around the corral...you didn´t happen too notice th flank cinch draging on the ground? sloppy saddeling? did the horse get a hind foot caught up in there?
Read smewhere he´s trained 10.000 colts in 20 years!
www.ranchhandcountry.com/article_info.php?articles_i=21
What it didn´t say is that he´s one of them Baby Riders (you know how i feel about that!) The film showed the differance between a 2 year old and a pissed off 3 year old, hell...a 3 year old is still a long way from mature, you notice Bucky Boy didn´t go near that horse!...afraid?
He wasn´t interested in what that woman had too say, he was just plain RUDE! he cut her off, she didn´t get the chance too say if the horse had been going with the other studs or was a loner that had too go by himself!
All we found out was he was hand fed till he could make it on his own, not much human contakt as she had a busted back, and was showing sighns of aggression...when and why never came out!!

Rope...yep, one of the tricks of the trade, catch a foot and theres not much the horse can do.
For any horse who is instinctivley protective of his legs which are it´s means of flight and survival must be very tramatic...expecialy for a 3year old with possible brain damage, strainge enviorment, not much handeling with a saddle and rider on it´s back.
I mean Come On!!! wheres the NH? the winning over of the horse?

No...it was all wrong Canada:
Brannaman should have gone out too that woman, checked out the situation, got the colt in the round pen and tried a little Join Up and find out if he was worth saving or he´s better off as dog meat instead of trying too make a show out of it where it all back fired and a man got hurt, and in my eye´s Buck Brannaman looks the damn fool.

Flag´s??
I just don´t get it with these NH people and their dern Flags and Swinging Ropes?
How the hell can you get an animals trust and confidence by whipping and swinging things around their head and ass?

I felt very sad for that woman and her horse and I came away with the conviction that I would not want that man or people like him around my horses.

 

[Tussemaja]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Knapplån: ...sen får vi inte glömma att det hände en hel del mer, än vad vi fick se i filmen. Kanske hade han jobbat mer med hingsten än vad vi fick se, kanske hade han och ägaren kommunicerat mer än vi fick se. Film, må så vara dokumentär, är trots allt media och filmen klipps ihop till det budskap som den är avsedd att sända ut...

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

*kl*
aterkommer troligen senare, har inte tid att skriva langa utlaggningar nu

http://houston.culturemap.com/newsd...es-horse-problems-to-people-problems-in-Buck/ men ville rekommendera folk att lasa den har

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Kor en latmaskvariant, fortfarande itne fardig med det jag grejjar med...

Hey Canada
Havn´t talk too you in a while, you guys doing OK?
Here´s the same ol same ol, got Amigo shoed, cows have gotten fat, haven´t gotten out since last I talk too you.
doin ok, 250 steers gone, just the other 500 left to go. Harvest is eating up our daylight!

I take it you saw the film? a while ago, on netflix... haha i cant remember all the details clearly

A lot we can discuss...how deep do you want too go? remember im a dumb blond, so lets keep it fairly shallow

Opening shot, a saddled horse bucking around the corral...you didn´t happen too notice th flank cinch draging on the ground? sloppy saddeling? did the horse get a hind foot caught up in there? Nothing i hate more than a loose flank cinch! Seeing them "flopping" even a hand below the horses belly makes me cringe, so yeah.. we saw it. Didn't impress much.

Read smewhere he´s trained 10.000 colts in 20 years! Remember, he's a clinician, so pushing thru x numbers of horses/day quickly raises the numbers compared to someone who only takes on 4 colts/month...

www.ranchhandcountry.com/article_info.php?articles_i=21
What it didn´t say is that he´s one of them Baby Riders (you know how i feel about that!) The film showed the differance between a 2 year old and a pissed off 3 year old, hell...a 3 year old is still a long way from mature, you notice Bucky Boy didn´t go near that horse!...afraid? He's alot more carefull than most would have been i think, if he gets gibbled up/laid up for a longer period of time his familys economy would be suffering pretty hard.. Ole guys dont bounce

He wasn´t interested in what that woman had too say, he was just plain RUDE! he cut her off, she didn´t get the chance too say if the horse had been going with the other studs or was a loner that had too go by himself!
All we found out was he was hand fed till he could make it on his own, not much human contakt as she had a busted back, and was showing sighns of aggression...when and why never came out!!
If i remember right he -did- an intervention at her place after the clinic and the situation with all the studs got "handled", so he didnt just yell and drop her like a hot rock. I agree, he was pretty harsh on her, but to be frank... i myself wouldn't have been even AS nice as he was. She made that horse into what he was, by all means, it was "innocent mistakes" involved, but the horse was a danger to himself and everybody aroudn him. Not saying he couldn't have been a bit nicer about it... just saying i prolly would have been WAY ruder if i walked in his shoes.

Rope...yep, one of the tricks of the trade, catch a foot and theres not much the horse can do.
For any horse who is instinctivley protective of his legs which are it´s means of flight and survival must be very tramatic...expecialy for a 3year old with possible brain damage, strainge enviorment, not much handeling with a saddle and rider on it´s back.
I mean Come On!!! wheres the NH? the winning over of the horse?
Again, he's a clinician, he needs to get his points across fairly quick to make a differance in a horse in such a short period of time. It wasn't a fair situation to the horse, not to the owner and realy not to buck and his helper either... Clinicians are almost a breed of their own, and I think thats something we need to keep in mind, they live on making fairly fast results. With that comes a bit more "push" in the sessions, wether we like it or not... Not defending it, just explaining it a bit.

No...it was all wrong Canada: jupp.
Brannaman should have gone out too that woman, checked out the situation, got the colt in the round pen and tried a little Join Up and find out if he was worth saving or he´s better off as dog meat instead of trying too make a show out of it where it all back fired and a man got hurt, and in my eye´s Buck Brannaman looks the damn fool.
http://houston.culturemap.com/newsd...es-horse-problems-to-people-problems-in-Buck/ At the end he explains his thoughts about the horse, i think it's a loss that it wasn't explained in the movie. It's always risky bizz to "play" with a horse like the pally it could have been done safer, however I do agree on the choice of putting him down. There are just too many good horses in the world being wasted to spend time on a horse that it will take years to rehab and that quite possibly will never be "right"

Flag´s??
I just don´t get it with these NH people and their dern Flags and Swinging Ropes?
How the hell can you get an animals trust and confidence by whipping and swinging things around their head and ass? eventually I guess it makes them quiet?

I felt very sad for that woman and her horse and I came away with the conviction that I would not want that man or people like him around my horses. He is just human, we all have our flaws. One thing i think we should remember is that he, atleast, didn't sugarcoat stuff in the movie. Just that makes it impressive. I did see some minor things in some of the clinicshots (with all the people in at the same time) where i feel it would have been better if he stepped in faster and explained in a different way - BUT i'm from a different school, im no clinician and i'm def. not BB.. lol I dont even know if i would have seen those things if i was there -for real-. To each their own, he's one very impressive roper, has made alot of positive changes in horses lives - and he doesn't beat the horses jaws with a great big shank statign that hes just "gently" swinging the lungeline... like some other horsemanshipdudes out there...

Aaaaand... i'm over and Out! Like a turda hurdles...

 

[Leafhillranch]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Kor en latmaskvariant, fortfarande itne fardig med det jag grejjar med...



Aaaaand... i'm over and Out! Like a turda hurdles...

You guys heading into the Fall Round Up, cutting out the cull´s for steaks

We didn´t see the Looong version of the film where you say he did go out too her ranch, that was good .....though a little late

Clinitichins... they´r suppose too be a knotch above us, have more knowlage and experiance. Maybe I just expected more and I forget they are 1-man shows.

Blame the woman....I seen so many wanna-bees in my life that should not have horse...but they do, and so the "proffesionals" are going too have too deal with them for the sake of the horse and if they want too make a living at it.
If they are going too Pick & Chose too impress their groupies then it´s not too smart too bring in a "Do or Die" hard case that make them look bad.
BB did a lot of talking and explaining (reminded me of the Parreli 7-games show), all his yacka-di-yack lost all meaning when that hard case came in and I didn´t see any "calm-patient-confident approch", but more of the old rope, sack out, saddle up....let him buck!
Hell Canada, that´s what I was doing when I was 16 for ol man Keith, and they was 1100lb. 4-5 year old Wild SOB´s off the Nez Pierce Reservation.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqmy20jx5MQ
I thought we had developed since then with the Join Up Concept "let´s be buddies and see what we can do together".
Yes Canada, we ol timers are just that "Old" and we don´t bounce like we use too, now day´s we need a stool to get into the saddle and we like too sit on the porch in the ol rocking chair, looking at the sunset, reminis with pretty little blonds and talk horses;
And that is soul deep Canada

 

[Lenita]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

You haven't changed one bit Mark....and I like that.
Good that I know what you're like in real life otherwise I might get as offended as some others do here...

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

it wasn't a part of the movie... just some info i stumbled upon later on when i did some googling to refresh my memory a bit.

It's interesting for me to read the swedes reactions to the movie itself, and surprises me how they miss the portrait of the man - which it was meant to be and no a statement about his horsemanship realy. it's also quite interesting to read how they reacted to that rope around the backleg... and that you are the only one "on that side of the ocean" that reacted on how it possibly affected the horses mental state... the swedes seem more concerned over injuries (yeah i know, alot of them don't know how a rope works)

I think I would have reacted way differently to the whole movie if i Didn't live here... It fascinates me how what we're used to or what we've seen colours what and how we react (on).

Working with horses, once in a while a person might have to step away from the "prettied up" and go Old School As much as most of us prefer a soft and sweet approach, every once in a blue moon getting harsh and "heavy" is the way to go.

A thing I learnt a long time ago...

Always strive to work with trust first, if trust don't work go for respect. If respect dont work - go for fear. Once there is a fear, you can turn it to respect and from there work on trust. It's realy harsh, but in some situations necessary. All depending on the horse, it's past experiences and it's geneticly controlled personality pieces.

Imo too there are way to many good horses going to waste out there to waste time on something as broken as that yellow thing. That woman will always have the pallys life on her shoulders and i realy hope she learned something from it.

 

[Leafhillranch]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Hi Lenita, hope you are doing well
Change...eh, why change? gotten comfey here, the horses work, the people dieing around me at least are not being blown up in a sensless war.
People are people and there´s no changing that.
Not here too be popular, if what I know can help just one person and their horse then it´s worth all the other B S´s, I can chose too ignor them.

Drop a PM...let me know how you and the horses are doing

 

[Lenita]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Hi Lenita, hope you are doing well
Change...eh, why change? gotten comfey here, the horses work, the people dieing around me at least are not being blown up in a sensless war.
People are people and there´s no changing that.
Not here too be popular, if what I know can help just one person and their horse then it´s worth all the other B S´s, I can chose too ignor them.

Drop a PM...let me know how you and the horses are doing

lol...just like I said straight to the point and no dilly dally from you...I like that...

 

[Leafhillranch]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

it wasn't a part of the movie... just some info i stumbled upon later on when i did some googling to refresh my memory a bit.

It's interesting for me to read the swedes reactions to the movie itself, and surprises me how they miss the portrait of the man - which it was meant to be and no a statement about his horsemanship realy. it's also quite interesting to read how they reacted to that rope around the backleg... and that you are the only one "on that side of the ocean" that reacted on how it possibly affected the horses mental state... the swedes seem more concerned over injuries (yeah i know, alot of them don't know how a rope works)
Differant up bringings, differant cultures, differant thinking process. People here have never been near a real bronk much less tried too ride one! I think this is the problem with the Swedish welfare state, people are babied from cradel too grave and are seldom faced with the realities of life.
I´d rather have a few rope burns too prevent a Jack Pot or "that´s the only way I can catch the SOB! than having no control. In the movie there was a choice of control and BB should have known that, then his guy wouldn´t have gotten his head biten off.

I think I would have reacted way differently to the whole movie if i Didn't live here... It fascinates me how what we're used to or what we've seen colours what and how we react (on).

Working with horses, once in a while a person might have to step away from the "prettied up" and go Old School As much as most of us prefer a soft and sweet approach, every once in a blue moon getting harsh and "heavy" is the way to go.
This is were the Old School Experiances come in handy, looking over the situation, figuring out what´s the best way too tackle the problem.
I think Brannaman, Parreli and them others are doing pretty good with what they are doing, I´m just not impressed when a real problem pops up.

A thing I learnt a long time ago...

Always strive to work with trust first, if trust don't work go for respect. If respect dont work - go for fear. Once there is a fear, you can turn it to respect and from there work on trust. It's realy harsh, but in some situations necessary. All depending on the horse, it's past experiences and it's geneticly controlled personality pieces.
A Key Word, www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect too man and animal.
I wonder if people even know what respect is now days, kinda hard too have respect when one has no pride (something lacking in this culture), it kinda goes hand in hand.
Franz Bengtsson said in his great work´s Karl XII Livnad, "when moral respect was not obtainable from his cousin King August, then the blade upon the throat would have too do since violance was the only respect King August understood...Värjan måsta göra sitt bäste, ty det skämter inte".
So too with a horse, if he has no respect for you then he has no interest, you have too earn it
Imo too there are way to many good horses going to waste out there to waste time on something as broken as that yellow thing. That woman will always have the pallys life on her shoulders and i realy hope she learned something from it.

As long as she learned something! I know of so many who never learn from mistakes.
You know Canada....been a loooong time since I saw a Man Eater

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Repbranna fixar man latt med lite ol foljt av aloevera!n Cowboy medicin nar den ar som bast "Hall lite ol pa det" haha...

men aprapa radslebaserad respekt, det ar nog nagot av det farligaste man kan arbeta med. Och ja, jag har gjort det. Men... en sadan hast som den gule, dar skulle man nog fa ta till helt galet brutala metoder. Inte nog med att jag ar overtygad om att oavsett vilken vag man valt att ga, pussigull eller "bank pa roven" sa skulle han med storsta sannolikhet ha forsokt ha ihjal en anda.

Det ar en sak med hastar som ar aggressiva pa grund utav radsla eller trauman, vi har en sadan har. Han anfaller inte men gor du fel sa finns en overhangande risk att han forsoker sparka huvudet av dig. Jattetrevlig hast, men speciell. I hans fall sa finns det ju inte pa kartan att "ga pa" och visa att "sa jaavlar gor man inte" for i den panik det skulle uppbringa skulle han absolut kunna ha ihjal bade sig sjalv och oss, sa dar ar det bara mjukt och fint och forstandigt som galler.

Personligen kan jag pa inget vis jamforas med nagot stort namn inom nagonting, jag har mina asikter gallande t.ex. PP och han gar helt bort fran listan over imponerande hasttranare. En otroligt skicklig affarsman absolut! Hasttranare? Jag skulle inte peta pa nagot av hans om jag sa fick betalt for det. Monty ar jag mer kluven till... Mark Rashid har jag gillat nar jag var yngre men har ingen koll pa honom idag.

Jag foredrar absolut de tranare som ar oppna med att de ar just bara Manniskor Med Erfarenhet, inte nagon form av allmaktig husgud som kan losa allt. Dar tycker jag BB ar bra, han framstaller sig inte som nagon Guds Gava till hastarna. Att han sen, ocksa, ar en performance artist (vet inte vad man kallar det pa svenska faktiskt) och en affarsman far man nog acceptera... han maste ju ata han med.

Sen aprapa "Brittisk skolengelska" sa vill jag bara, for skojs skull, upplysa om att jag har raka MVGn i engelska, samt passerade nationella Engelska B provet med 2 fel - jag skrev pa amerikansk engelska i stallet for brittisk. Jag kanske ska vara glad att jag hade de larare jag hade som tyckte min engelska var absolut valdigt begriplig... Som sagt, jag oversatter garna om det ar nagot som ar oklart, finns fa engelska till svenska oversattningar jag har svart med.

 

[danilo]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Intressant tråd!

Jag tyckte också att dokumentären var väldigt vacker. Alltså, man får ju komma ihåg att en film alltid är en film, oavsett om det är en dokumentär eller spelfilm. Vackert foto, fin musik, spännande dramaturgi.

Sen vad gäller hästhanteringen så tycker jag som många andra att hans ödmjukhet var slående. Jag tror att hans häst mår svinbra med honom, och då är det ju bara fine. Flaggorna störde jag mig inte så mycket på, ibland är det ju bra att kunna visa vägen för en häst och ha en "förlängd arm".

Bara en fundering Bewildered, vad är det med PP's träning som du förkastar? Jag är inte så insatt i den så jag har ingen åsikt i frågan direkt, men blir nyfiken på dina tankar.

 

[Leafhillranch]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Jo Canada, been out with the guys, our social bit, thinking about all we talk about, the film, the man eater and the horses i´v had too deal with over the years. Like you say agression is based on fear, if you caint run from it you fight.
Fat ol Ami has no fear, that makes her one of the best horses I ever had, she attracks little kiddies and wild horses too her like magnet.
Amigo was a nervous wreck when he came, thanks too Ami, peace and quite, som TLC he´s turned out too be a good horse, but it took a little time.
This 3 year old I´v been thinking about and asking myself "how would I do it?"
Well, first I´d get him castrated, then in the round pen, I´d sit in the middle, apples and a trail pack, hay, water a good solid horse like Amigo and a stick, then try a join up, he comes in nasty and sassy i drive him away, he drops his head and seeks the comfort and security of my circle fine, then we´r on the road too him being saved, if not then its just a bullet in the head.

You know, i have a hard time understanding the english english nowdays, they chop their word all to hell.
Thanks for the help.

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Ojsan, var ska jag borja...

Hans "snalla" skakande pa repet resulterar i att den dar rejalt grova och tunga haken (fel ord tror jag, forlat, kommer nog pa ratt ord senare) slar hasten pa vissa mycket kansliga delar utav huvudet. Fysiklag: det du forlorar i langd vinner du i kraft och utslaget i repet "vaxer" och for over den okade kraften till haken.

PPs bolltraning tycker jag ar bullshit och rent ut sagt Tokfanigt! Nar hasten accepterar denna enorma boll pa ryggen sa ar den redo for att ridas... wtf arligt talat... PPs traning gar ut pa en sak och bara en sak i mina ogon och det ar att sacka ut hasten sa till den bilda grans att deras huvud blir "overhettat" och de helt sonika accepterar allt - och accepterar den inte det sa korrigeras det till den punkt att hasten inte har nagot annat val an att saga okey. Jag blir sakert skjuten, men den tid folk borde lagga pa att bli Battre pa att lasa hastar, Battre pa att ridas laggs pa att hoja hastens mentala toleransniva sa pass att den till slut ger upp att reagera. Det finns mycket lite positivt i hans traningsmetoder. Sen anser jag det forkastligt att folk MASTE ha hans marke pa sina saker for att ens fa aka pa en clinic.

Uppe pa det sa har han gjrot bort sig sa enormt har i nord amerika att hans fru, som ar lika illa och kanske varre i mina ogon, har tagit over det mesta av ruljansen. Har du sett videon dar hon korrigerar en halvblind hast nagot enormt for att hasten forsoker vanda in (hon star alltsa pa dens blinda sida) for att se henne? Hasten blir raddare och raddare och Linda blir hardare och mer brutal ju langre tid det gar. Hasten SER alltsa INTE vad hon ber om utan ber gang pa gang att "snalla lat mig se dig" men far den dar forbannade haken intjongad i huvudet varje gang den ber...

nah, fina ord ar dom duktiga pa och de ar otroligt duktiga forsaljare. Men -ingen- som ar PPtranad ar valkommen att arbeta mina hastar. Jag har heller inget intresse av att kopa en hast som ar PPtranad.

Sau babes, bring it on! ..for jag vet att jag precis rasagade en guru och det kommer nog tyvarr kanske stampa pa nagra omma tar...

 

[wrangler]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Jag håller helt med!
Dessutom har jag råsågat MR ett par gånger så jag vet att folks tår brukar vara ganska ömma Men dom två tar jag inte i med tång, om jag så får betalt....


I övrigt var det inlägget det enda jag orkat läsa i sin helhet sedan ungefär början av tråden nånstans

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

jag har sa dalig koll pa dom nissarna nu for tiden... hor jag orden "Natural horsemanship" sa springer jag at andra hallet sa fort benen bar. Jag var fascinerad nar jag var yngre, ung o dum kanske? Tur man blir klokare med aren... mycket mojligt att jag skulle kora huvudet i skithinken om jag beslutade mig for att kolla narmare pa MR i dagslaget, sa jag later nog bli det... enda anledningen att jag har en del koll pa BB ar for att han ar roper och en mycket skicklig sadan.. lol

 

[danilo]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

woho jag är inte ensam alltså... jag har iof aldrig sett eller hört talas varken om någon bollträning (what?!) eller om den blinda hästen, men det där skakandet i repet har jag alltid tyckt verkar helt onödigt. det finns ju många andra lättare sätt att göra saker och ting på än att skaka ett rep.

jag är nog kanske där, eller har just varit där, är ung och fortfarande relativt dum . men ju mer jag provar och går på magkänsla ju mer håller jag med om ditt resonemang, natural horsemanship betyder tusen saker eller ingenting ungefär. och sammanfattningsvis tycker jag om ordspråket "tomma tunnor skramlar mest".

 

[Bewildered]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

jag ar inte lastgammal jag heller riktigt, men under en 10 ars period har jag gatt ratt rakt fran asikt till asikt, eller kanske insikt... eller sa har jag bara paborjat stegen for att bli en blond, sur och Dum bitter gammal tant lite i fortid jag vet inte, jag kan ju absolut ha total fel. Men ja, i mina ogon sa ar "repvifteriet" for det mesta bara en maskering utav nagot Mycket fulare. Det som ar skrammande ar att det presenterar en "handbok" med "steg for steg" ovningar, det ar alltsa en MANUAL som, i mina ogon, hindrar det fria tankandet. Ja nej.. bleh. Summasumarum: du ar absolut inte ensam hahaha och jag ar glad att jag itne heller ar det (ska se om jag kan hitta lanken till bolltraningen... du kommer do av skratt)

 

[Leafhillranch]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

Don´t be so hard on yourself Canada, your young, beautiful and got a pretty good hand with horses, don´t take out age i förskott (oh oh, theres that ol swed-english again)
Yep, BB´s pretty good roper of the Buckaroo typ. He and his brother came a bit late for me, I was already here in Sweden when they were doing their little rope trick shows.
Haven´t seen MR since 94 when he was trying too save the American Mustange.
You have too remember Montey set the ground work for public awareness on "how too deal with problem horses".
MR and many of the other NH guys are of two differant school of thoughts, Join Up and Distance.

 

[Wild Rein]

Sv: Dokumentärfilmen om Buck Brannaman

*KL*

In my world......Natural Horsemanshi(t)p is plain common sense...as simple as that!!
Lär dig hästens anatomi och lär dig läsa och förstå hästens signaler!
Thats it....
Respekt, kunskap, känsla och timing....behövs inget mer!


Wildy