4
4BarsRR
Sv: Bettdjungeln
A leather strap is flexible and isn't very effective at stabilizing the moving shanks. They still twist easily with a leather strap. I have no recollection of ever seeing or hearing about any actual purpose to a leather strap in the rein rings. I am pretty sure it is a case of someone who didn't know better placing the curb strap in the wrong rings. It isn't unusual to see a rod or even a fancy metal piece however--either straight or jointed. I can't guarantee that the leather strap isn't appropriate, but I don't remember anything about it in any books or ever seeing it in use.
You can use a metal stabilizing piece on a split mouth bit as well. Had used a Tom Thumb for a little while until we realized how sharp it really was.
The problem with "snaffle" mouthpieces on curb bits (bits with shanks... generally called "stangbid" over here, although that is a bit confusing, because a "stangbid" can also be a snaffle with an unjointed mouthpiece) is the "nutcracker effect." When you use the reins, the bit will fold in half in the horse's mouth, causing it to pinch the lower jaw and to put pressure on the inside top of the mouth (ganen). This is where a Billy Allen is different. The central piece of the mouthpiece limits the movement, preventing the "nutcracker." But it also limits its usability for direct reining. In general you shouldn't be direct reining on any type of curb bit, regardless of the mouthpiece. You use snaffles when you need to direct rein and curbs when the horse is ready for indirect reining (one handed).
It is very individual from horse to horse what bit works best. It is difficult when on a limited budget to find the right bit. If you can find anyone else in your area that rides western, talk to them about whether you might be able to try any of their bits on your horse. Also check used sales sites like here for bits for sale. It can't hurt to ask the seller if they would be willing for you to have a few days to try it and refund your money if it didn't work. The worst they can say is no, but if they say yes, you'd only lose the shipping costs.
If your horse fits a 5" bit, there is usually a good selection of used bits. It is trickier when your horse needs a larger bit. Our paint needs a 5 1/4" or 5 1/2". We ended up ordering the Billy Allen from Germany and only used it once to find out she hated it. So it is just hanging on the wall since. The grazing in the picture is also extra now, because we ended up with two in the same size.
Our Quarter had been on Tom Thumb briefly and didn't do well on it. They're advertised as transitional bits, so we'd gotten it without doing enough research. After that we got into really studying them and the comments about the nutcracker effect and them actually being sharper than the grazing bit, for example, are quite common from very experienced people. For example, Jessica Jahiel has a small simple book that explains about bits, but unfortunately no guide for figuring out what actually works on your horse.
When talking about the strength of a curb bit, there are several factors: the length of the shanks, the thickness of the mouthpiece, the height of the port, and the shape of the horse's mouth. In general a thinner mouthpiece is considered sharper and a thicker less sharp. But if the thick mouthpiece doesn't fit well in the horse's mouth, the bit ends up being worse for the horse than a thinner one. A higher port is also sharper than a shallower port, because it comes more quickly into contact with the inside top of the mouth and will put more pressure on it. But if you have the right hands and a well-trained horse that is physically and mentally prepared to carry itself properly and the bit's balance matches the horse's head carriage, there is nothing wrong with a good spade or spoon. It's not something we would do personally because we don't think it necessary for our horses and don't feel that we put enough riding into them for that to be appropriate.
The one factor that doesn't have so many exceptions is the length of the shanks. Longer shanks give more leverage, meaning that any pressure (including the weight changes of moving the reins) is multiplied more onto the horse's mouth. We tend to avoid the longer shank bits, even though our horses both react well with pure neck reining. It's just not something we're comfortable with. So we tend to choose bits for ourselves with shorter shanks, like the grazing bit in the picture. The other thing with grazing bits--and the reason for their name--is that their design makes them more suitable for allowing the horse to graze or drink while wearing the bit.
If you really want to get into it, you'd also need to study the influences of the different shank shapes and the factors of the shank above the mouthpiece as well as between the mouthpiece and the reins. We haven't gotten into that part of it. There was an article recently in Western Horseman that talked about how these different lengths best worked with different head carriages and neck lengths. But even as an American, I had trouble making enough sense out of the article.
Bit material is also a big influence for some horses on how well they take the bit. Many will not do well on the photographed grazing bit because it has neither copper or sweet iron to improve the flavor. But it works well on the one of our horses. The other is on a different bit I haven't a photograph of that is showier and has a medium port (the port is higher than the grazing bit but lower than many ports I see advertised as medium). She does better on the slightly higher port and that bit also has some copper inlay, which she prefers.
Unfortunately I have not been able to find any directions for how to determine by studying your horse whether it will be okay in a thicker mouthpiece or needs a thinner one. I did a lot of research for that before ordering the larger Billy Allen, but it seems only possible to determine it by trying the bit and maybe by comparing different horse mouths. Our paint is quite unusual in any case, because they rarely require so large a bit or an X-Full bridle. So we've really had to rely on experimentation and been lucky only to have a few that didn't work out. It is definitely more difficult to find the larger sized bits used, even if searching ebay in the US.
We have a pretty good collection of bits on our wall however. Some have come with bridles we bought used and we picked up a couple mixed lots at one point. But several of them we aren't comfortable using on our own horses, so are hesitant to sell, although we have had several people ask us for correction bits.
The intention of correction bits is to fix some problem in the horse. That's what they're advertised for and sold for. Unfortunately we've run into a few "professional" trainers her in Europe that tend to rely on these bits instead of on proper training for the horses. We've even known them to be recommended for younger horses. So for now we're just keeping some of them for decoration.
I hope that helped some. If anything is unclear or you have more questions, feel free to ask. If nothing else, I can dig some of the books off the shelf. Actually got a new one for Christmas I haven't had the chance to study yet that hopefully will give more insight into bit selection.
I wouldn't call myself a bit expert. I'm just a plain rider that ended up doing a lot of research into the subject when trying to find the right bits for our own horses. I do wish I understood why my mare suddenly got tired of the Billy Allen and ended up prefering the grazing bit, when previously the opposite has been true. But I have no idea, so I just have to trust that she'll let me know if she changes her mind again. I did find the Billy Allen annoying until we put a rod onto it, because the shanks would twist outward and she'd end up mouthing them and playing with them.
Oh, one last thing I forgot to mention. The type and tightness of the curb strap also influences. Chains are generally sharper than straps, especially if they twist. I think I remember reading that some rule books don't allow the chains anyway. We tend to use leather ones in various designs. Have also experimented some with 6mm rope. The horses seem happy with those as well, although the one was not content with the fancy tassles flapping under her chin.
I think bitting is even more of an art than saddle fitting!
Så bara en rem fyller inte den tänkta funktionen? Används det bara på stänger med en fast mundel? I så fall varför?
Du får gärna svara i engelska, jag har lite svårt att förstå och google translate är inte helt hundra på hästtermer
A leather strap is flexible and isn't very effective at stabilizing the moving shanks. They still twist easily with a leather strap. I have no recollection of ever seeing or hearing about any actual purpose to a leather strap in the rein rings. I am pretty sure it is a case of someone who didn't know better placing the curb strap in the wrong rings. It isn't unusual to see a rod or even a fancy metal piece however--either straight or jointed. I can't guarantee that the leather strap isn't appropriate, but I don't remember anything about it in any books or ever seeing it in use.
You can use a metal stabilizing piece on a split mouth bit as well. Had used a Tom Thumb for a little while until we realized how sharp it really was.
The problem with "snaffle" mouthpieces on curb bits (bits with shanks... generally called "stangbid" over here, although that is a bit confusing, because a "stangbid" can also be a snaffle with an unjointed mouthpiece) is the "nutcracker effect." When you use the reins, the bit will fold in half in the horse's mouth, causing it to pinch the lower jaw and to put pressure on the inside top of the mouth (ganen). This is where a Billy Allen is different. The central piece of the mouthpiece limits the movement, preventing the "nutcracker." But it also limits its usability for direct reining. In general you shouldn't be direct reining on any type of curb bit, regardless of the mouthpiece. You use snaffles when you need to direct rein and curbs when the horse is ready for indirect reining (one handed).
It is very individual from horse to horse what bit works best. It is difficult when on a limited budget to find the right bit. If you can find anyone else in your area that rides western, talk to them about whether you might be able to try any of their bits on your horse. Also check used sales sites like here for bits for sale. It can't hurt to ask the seller if they would be willing for you to have a few days to try it and refund your money if it didn't work. The worst they can say is no, but if they say yes, you'd only lose the shipping costs.
If your horse fits a 5" bit, there is usually a good selection of used bits. It is trickier when your horse needs a larger bit. Our paint needs a 5 1/4" or 5 1/2". We ended up ordering the Billy Allen from Germany and only used it once to find out she hated it. So it is just hanging on the wall since. The grazing in the picture is also extra now, because we ended up with two in the same size.
Our Quarter had been on Tom Thumb briefly and didn't do well on it. They're advertised as transitional bits, so we'd gotten it without doing enough research. After that we got into really studying them and the comments about the nutcracker effect and them actually being sharper than the grazing bit, for example, are quite common from very experienced people. For example, Jessica Jahiel has a small simple book that explains about bits, but unfortunately no guide for figuring out what actually works on your horse.
When talking about the strength of a curb bit, there are several factors: the length of the shanks, the thickness of the mouthpiece, the height of the port, and the shape of the horse's mouth. In general a thinner mouthpiece is considered sharper and a thicker less sharp. But if the thick mouthpiece doesn't fit well in the horse's mouth, the bit ends up being worse for the horse than a thinner one. A higher port is also sharper than a shallower port, because it comes more quickly into contact with the inside top of the mouth and will put more pressure on it. But if you have the right hands and a well-trained horse that is physically and mentally prepared to carry itself properly and the bit's balance matches the horse's head carriage, there is nothing wrong with a good spade or spoon. It's not something we would do personally because we don't think it necessary for our horses and don't feel that we put enough riding into them for that to be appropriate.
The one factor that doesn't have so many exceptions is the length of the shanks. Longer shanks give more leverage, meaning that any pressure (including the weight changes of moving the reins) is multiplied more onto the horse's mouth. We tend to avoid the longer shank bits, even though our horses both react well with pure neck reining. It's just not something we're comfortable with. So we tend to choose bits for ourselves with shorter shanks, like the grazing bit in the picture. The other thing with grazing bits--and the reason for their name--is that their design makes them more suitable for allowing the horse to graze or drink while wearing the bit.
If you really want to get into it, you'd also need to study the influences of the different shank shapes and the factors of the shank above the mouthpiece as well as between the mouthpiece and the reins. We haven't gotten into that part of it. There was an article recently in Western Horseman that talked about how these different lengths best worked with different head carriages and neck lengths. But even as an American, I had trouble making enough sense out of the article.
Bit material is also a big influence for some horses on how well they take the bit. Many will not do well on the photographed grazing bit because it has neither copper or sweet iron to improve the flavor. But it works well on the one of our horses. The other is on a different bit I haven't a photograph of that is showier and has a medium port (the port is higher than the grazing bit but lower than many ports I see advertised as medium). She does better on the slightly higher port and that bit also has some copper inlay, which she prefers.
Unfortunately I have not been able to find any directions for how to determine by studying your horse whether it will be okay in a thicker mouthpiece or needs a thinner one. I did a lot of research for that before ordering the larger Billy Allen, but it seems only possible to determine it by trying the bit and maybe by comparing different horse mouths. Our paint is quite unusual in any case, because they rarely require so large a bit or an X-Full bridle. So we've really had to rely on experimentation and been lucky only to have a few that didn't work out. It is definitely more difficult to find the larger sized bits used, even if searching ebay in the US.
We have a pretty good collection of bits on our wall however. Some have come with bridles we bought used and we picked up a couple mixed lots at one point. But several of them we aren't comfortable using on our own horses, so are hesitant to sell, although we have had several people ask us for correction bits.
The intention of correction bits is to fix some problem in the horse. That's what they're advertised for and sold for. Unfortunately we've run into a few "professional" trainers her in Europe that tend to rely on these bits instead of on proper training for the horses. We've even known them to be recommended for younger horses. So for now we're just keeping some of them for decoration.
I hope that helped some. If anything is unclear or you have more questions, feel free to ask. If nothing else, I can dig some of the books off the shelf. Actually got a new one for Christmas I haven't had the chance to study yet that hopefully will give more insight into bit selection.
I wouldn't call myself a bit expert. I'm just a plain rider that ended up doing a lot of research into the subject when trying to find the right bits for our own horses. I do wish I understood why my mare suddenly got tired of the Billy Allen and ended up prefering the grazing bit, when previously the opposite has been true. But I have no idea, so I just have to trust that she'll let me know if she changes her mind again. I did find the Billy Allen annoying until we put a rod onto it, because the shanks would twist outward and she'd end up mouthing them and playing with them.
Oh, one last thing I forgot to mention. The type and tightness of the curb strap also influences. Chains are generally sharper than straps, especially if they twist. I think I remember reading that some rule books don't allow the chains anyway. We tend to use leather ones in various designs. Have also experimented some with 6mm rope. The horses seem happy with those as well, although the one was not content with the fancy tassles flapping under her chin.
I think bitting is even more of an art than saddle fitting!
